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Talk:Occasionally Attacks X Times
I'm confused by the introduction -- I'm not really sure what's being said. Can someone edit it to make it clearer? I think these are the main points trying to be expressed, but I'm not sure: * Double and Triple Attack and the effect normally won't execute together * The trait will be checked to execute first, and a job ability second. * When dual wielding a multi-attack weapon, it won't affect your other held weapon. Then there's something about how often the trait goes off, but again I'm not sure what's being said there. --Enfield 12:20, 5 September 2006 (EDT) SA/TA and Multihit weapons Taken from one of Keichan's LJ entry ::2. If you use a multi hit weapon (such as a Kraken Club)as a main weapon, ALL RESULTING HITS will connect regardless of your accuracy. You can be entirely naked on THF hitting AV with a Kraken Club (and for the most part missing every single hit) but the moment you use SA and you just let it hit the mob, you will have 100% accuracy for that rally. (I'm not saying that you're not going to hit for 0's.. but you WILL hit it with 100% accuracy). ::This can be quite useful for something such as a THF/DRK. Right before you'd Souleater, you'd SA from behind the mob with kraken for a potental 2-8 free hits, and then TA for another 2-8 free hits. Afterwords, you'd do Feint, and go crazy on the mob and by the time Feint wears, Souleater is just about done and you've done your share of damage. Probably a good thing to put on note. I'm not certain if it works on /THF though.--VZX 01:18, 27 October 2006 (EDT) Zanshin Does Zanshin work on missed extra attacks? --Ctownwoody 19:48, 13 September 2007 (CDT) IIRC, it's not. But feel free to CMIIW--[[User:VZX|''vzx '']](See me|Talk to me) 14:19, 14 September 2007 (CDT) Translate that to English? --Ctownwoody 15:35, 14 September 2007 (CDT) If I Recall Correctly, it's not. But feel free to Correct Me If I'm Wrong.--[[User:VZX|''vzx '']](See me|Talk to me) 17:12, 14 September 2007 (CDT) Aftermath Can't be sure, but I don't think the attacks twice is only during aftermath. Given that aftermath is "occasional" to begin with, they would be inferior to other multiple hit weapons. I suppose its best to just leave it there with the verification tag for now, but just my thoughts. Tahngarthortalk- 04:45, 11 September 2008 (UTC) *My question is, why have verification if it specifically states "Occasionally attacks twice." Shentok 02:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC) Jailer Weapons I noticed it used to say that jailer weapons'(weapons that regular virtue stones) double attack can proc on weapon skills but it was removed without any explanation(guessing because it doesn't?). So, I want to know if anyone can confirm if jailer weapons can or can't proc on weapon skills? Petco 06:36, 12 January 2009 (UTC) Brutal Earring/Double Attack I've added a verification to the "100% confirmed" ability to break the 8 attacks per round limit on the main page. No confirmation was provided, no parses or screenshots. Just some guy saying "100% confirmed". I find this info HIGHLY suspect, as I have yet to see Joyeuse attack three times in a single round with Brutal equipped. Unless K.club is different than every other weapon in this catagory, there is no method to pass 8 attacks in a single round. (Technically while dual-wield is in place, K.club can only hit a maximum of 7 times anyway under this logic, or you could potentially have an attack round where your single-hit weapon didn't hit-which is unlikely to be possible.)--Aiyana-Bahamut 10:12, February 6, 2010 (UTC) I still believe the above information to be suspect. Still no parses are provided, no screenshots, no solid evidence of any kind, and yet it is being posted as "100% confirmed" from simply one person's testimony. Said person claims that Kraken Club swings a single time less than 1% of the time, which is impossible to determine without a parse - meaning this info is exaggerated. Furthermore, it does nothing to explain why I cannot double attack with a Joyeuse to result in 3 attacks. Is Kraken Club different than all other "Occasionally Attacks X times" weapons? For anyone who HAS a K.club, this is not hard to test, simply fight a mob with terrible accuracy and Utsusemi/Stoneskin (To prevent TP gain from damage), and count the TP from each attack - then macro swap to change your ranged weapon/shield to reset your TP to 0 and repeat. When I manage to obtain an Octave Club I will test this personally, unless all weapons aside from Kraken "magically" do not apply.--Aiyana-Bahamut 18:37, February 14, 2010 (UTC) Effective Delay Normally the fastest attack speed for Kraken club is gained using the weapon single handed in the main hand. This is because Dual Wield delay reduction is taken first, and then haste delay reduction is taken from that reduced delay rather than summing it together as one reduction. There are a couple of situations where dual wield will make for a more effective attack speed/result in damage. 1. Main job ninja gets more dual wield effect, so main handing a Katana, and offhanding a kclub will result in faster attacks than kclub alone. 2. Main handing Mkris and off handing kclub with suppanomimi and haste gear. This works because the Mkris has a low delay, and boosts the average hits per round up off 4.5 to around 6ish (I haven't been able to parse this.) But its obvious when using the combo on KrakenRNG that it is effective. HP build with +30 hp shield is still more effective for DRK zerg as far as I can tell. When I get more haste gear for DRK I'll test it more. Another side note; a well geared SAM can still out parse KrakenRNG in merits even with a really nice setup including Culverin +1 by about 10%. Tested this in a 2 bard party. Most of the parse had regular songs, but at the end we went to 4x attack and I think the KrakenRNG got the upper hand at that point. Just a side note. ahahaha. SAM cannot in a million years out parse a kraken RNG. on top of the fact that the kraken rng WILL get TP much faster then a SAM the WS damage is higher due to birds being weak to pircing damage. a good geared rng with a brd in the pt can make solo SC's with sidewinder > sidewinder makes detonation. SAM cannot build TP that fast. Even when a SAM uses Meditate the 20TP per tic still isn't as fast TP build as kraken rng. in fact if you want i can show you making solo light SC on whm with no brd in the pt and just my haste i give myself. The only way a SAM could out parse a RNG is if the colibri was always on the RNG spaming feather tickle. I've had a kclub for 3 years and have nin rng smn whm drk bst sam thf pld drg all 75. have max haste you can possibly get on all jobs due to Vbelt or haste belt when on drk. No idea what your kraken rng was doing wrong in your pt cause i wasn't there but if he didn't have at least 20-25% haste and have gear swap for sidewinder have max club merits or using sole or squid sushi he clearly maybe just new to the kclub rng. i just can't stress enough how insanly fast you can get TP with kraken. literally most times if you blink you have 100TP. With a brd in the pt i could easily say the delay between WS's is about 5 seconds or less. Theres never really a time where you can't make a solo SC with a brd in the PT you build TP that fast The effect of DA and TA on multi hit weapons After accumulating some DA and TA gear i started to notice that i was doing alot more double attacks then anything else with my kclub so i decided to set up a test. i did 200 steelshells in the tree. only had a kclub equiped and would turn away after each round of attack and record the number of swings. i did 100 crabs with 15% DA and 5% TA in armor. this was on RNG with (brutal earring / epona ring / atheling mantle / calmecac trousers / twilight belt) my results were. these are % based numbers 5 / 38 / 19 / 16 / 14 / 6 / 3 / 0 rounded to the nearest decimal Then i took off all DA and TA gear and did 100 more crabs and these were the results again in a % 3 / 9 / 25 / 25 / 25 / 9 / 5 / 1 rounded to the nearest decimal. so its clear that using DA and TA gear with a multi hit weapon that attacks more then 3 times is extremely gimping your TP potential. Clarification on Double/Triple/Quadruple Attack effects I've noticed many people making incorrect assumptions about how Double/Triple/Quad. Attack traits and equipment affect Occasionally Attacks X weaponry. These assumptions are generally based off the Kraken Club, which is a poor choice for comparison. For a D/T/QA trait to be detrimental to damage output and TP gain, it must be of a rate lower than the Average Attacks per Round(AA/P) of the weapon in question. Here are some examples using 10% DA for simplicity's sake. The "20" is Overall AA/P calculations is the 20 attacks on average per 100 from the 10% Double Attack. The 90 is the remaining 90 attacks using the weapons AA/P rate. Soboro/Ridill - 30SA/50DA/20TA Weapon AA/P = 30 + (50 * 2) + (20 * 3) / 100 = 1.9 Overall AA/P = (90 * 1.9 + 20) / 100 = 1.91 Joyeuse - 55SA/45DA Weapon AA/P = 55 + (45 * 2) / 100 = 1.45 Overall AA/P = (90 * 1.45 + 20) / 100 = 1.505 Mercurial Sword - 20SA/40DA/30TA/10QA Weapon AA/P = 20 + (40 * 2) + (30 * 3) + (10 * 40) / 100 = 2.3 Overall AA/P = (90 * 2.3 + 20) / 100 = 2.27 So, Double Attack is still provides a benefit for weapons with an AA/P < 2. The benefit of DA diminishes the closer to the 2 AA/P the weapon is. If the weapon exceeds 2 AA/P, DA trait and gear becomes detrimental overall. --Graywolfe (talk) 07:34, April 23, 2013 (UTC)